Author: marie

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:39 pm

I had an appt with my Sub doc yesterday. I told him about my concern for generic Sub eventually being discontinued.

My doctor hadn’t heard that this was a possibility……….I TAKE THIS AS A GOOD SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn’t have any problems filling my script at the pharmacy either (besides the fact that they only had 30 in stock).

I was frightened that they were gonna tell me that the generic had been pulled as well. Thankfully, generic Sub is still here!!

*If anyone else (on Subutex) has an update…..please post it.
Im sure positive updates will help calm the fears for those of us whom are on Subutex.

Author: travispnorton

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:33 pm

homer wrote:

I’ve no intention of quitting subs, that line of thought has repeatedly led to relapse for me, never say never though

Hey! Welcome (back)! It’s great that you have made a decision to try something different rather than doing the same thing and expecting different results! Like you said, never say never, and when you’re ready I think tapering from Suboxone will be totally doable, but for now I think it’s great that you are giving yourself some time on a stable dose to simply get life issues in order before thinking about the process of tapering. For me, it’s really not that difficult to take a couple pills daily when I remember all the craziness that went along with active addiction for me. Buprenorphine has been nothing but positive for me and puts distance between me and active addiction so I can be successful. Anyway, just wanted to welcome you back!

-Travis

Author: Ironic

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:47 pm

Since your habit is pretty small, I would stay low on the Subs like you are doing.

If you plan on going back to using when you get your new script, it’s especially important to stay low. Sub is gonna raise your tolly, as 1mg of Sub = ~60 mg morphine, so take the least amount of Sub you need not to feel sick. After a few days of taking Sub, you’re gonna have to wait 3 days probably before you can even feel the hydro again..Subs will block hydros for days, even at a low dose.

Author: amber4.14.11

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:58 pm

finallyachance,
Im like you,,,,I can hear that sound MILES away…….lol…..and you just know from experience after awhile what the GOOD ones sound like right, Romeo???

I went shopping with two friends of mine a few months ago, and told one of my friends to take the FKn pills outta her pocket cuz I didnt want to hear them jingle around while we were shopping. she looked at me like I was nuts…..
then tried to tell me they were just tylenol or some shit, I was like yea,, then WHY are they in your pocket, becuase your worried about my TYLENOL problem???
it didnt bother me she was ‘keeping them safe’ or what the F ever,,, but c’mon…..

anyway, she did, find another’place’ cuz I didnt hear them anymore. it DID drive me nuts though.

and even now, when Im in a store, or in line at the pharmacy, I can hear EVERYONES shit,,, I still look behind the counter, and ‘find’ all the bottles I’d stuff in a pillowcase and fucking RUN…..
lol
we can all have fantasies I think,,, I dont act on them…..I once ALMOST did….glad I didnt though. I once did have it all planned out, but my ‘sidekick’ went to jail, got busted with H, and I never did trust anyone else enough. thank god

enough about that….
im doing my ‘homework’ for therapy next week….cuz Ill be going back to work monday,,, and I know I wont get it done. I’ll probably be DOG ASS tired the first few days,,,,Ive been REALLY lazy on this vacation,,,,just playing with my son, thats about it. I did do some laundry and helped grandma move all her furniture around. I think it was good for me to spend all this time with my kiddo though, cuz I was really feeling guilty about working so much a couple weeks ago. now I feel much better, in that department anyway.

I have alot of funny stories like that day I found those pills.
a short one would be, one of my fellow ‘nodders’ had a hard time staying awake when counting pills to me, he used to ‘display’ them on th table as he counted,,, a few times he ‘nodded out’ while counting, I ‘cleared ‘ the table off, putm in my pocket, and was like ‘dude,,, I just gave you blank money,, gimie my shit’
and he would begin counting,,, AGIAN…….lol
I knew that guy from the time I was 16 so I guess he ‘trusted’ me……lol
trust an addict….what a mistake

Oh well no harm done,,, a few times he told me,, Im like $300 short to pay my guy,,, I dunno WHAT happened…. Id say, you probly ATE too many dude….he ‘d just shake his head……

Author: finallyachance

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:39 am

I know I am in the suboxone forum and maybe I should be asking this in the Methadone forum on this site, but I am trying to arm myself with the information before I have a talk with a friend of mine who….is scared right now to even looking into this for herself. I will approach her with it all when I see she is in a responsive place. I may post it in the methadone forum too and I know that is double posting but I see only a few of the members post in the methadone forum so I need a bit more exposure, so please excuse the double post because I think it to be real important to get the most info as I can.
I met this young lady 24 years old in our methadone clinic two years ago. We both were new and had to drive an hour one way to go to the clinic everyday in the dead of winter where snow was such a problem so we began riding together and my husband could always take us when the snow was bad. I am 48 years old so I kind of have tucked her under my wing and mothered her since then and now I love her as if she were one of my own. So needless to say when she came to me and told me she was pregnant, I was overjoyed with excitement because she has polycystic fibroids disease and was told she probably would never have children and although she seemed to be ok with this I mourned for her because there is no better joy than motherhood and grandmother hood.
She takes 180 mgs of methadone and well we have seen many pregnant girls well into their pregnancy continue on methadone and then have their babies and continue on after that. I have never asked any questions about how they did on the methadone while pregnant. What happened when the baby was born? Is the baby is addicted? Etc….Is a Test administered when a baby is born showing methadone in baby’s system? Do they report it to DSS? Can they take her baby? Her counselor told her to come off methadone would be more stressful on her and the baby. It may take longer than 9 months to effectively taper/detox her from 180 mgs per day. In fact he told her they probably are going to have to increase her. Without any angry/rude comments please can anyone give any feedback on this subject? I want to gather as much info as I can. Should she consider changing to suboxone? Now her counselor has told her it is safe. That if the baby shows withdrawals they can be treated effectively. Of course he did not tell her if DSS was going to be an issue etc…

Author: meltalk

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:28 am

Thanks Romeo, I am for sure taking steps to move myself along in my recovery. I’ve also had a few set backs but I’m working through them and I am Overall very Proud of myself and whats is going on with my life.

I have even had orders for the hairbows I’m making and that feels good. Other people are liking my crafts LOL!!!!! So I can do what I enjoy and make a few bucks while doing it. Not bad or should I say make enough to pay for my material
Mel

Author: finallyachance

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:15 pm

I have no Idea, but consider yourself very lucky. It’s almost like the best Christmas present I have heard about. I would have been so panicked that I would have had terrible diarrhea and sweats/chills etc…From the panic alone. I am interested in what your next move is. Do you have a relapse prevention plan going on? Are you considering finding a new doc? Just wondering. I sometimes work myself up into a panic when I realize that at anytime these docs can just decide to yank it all up and we can be left in situations like yours. The way I look at it is we are addicts and if we mess up every once in a while it’s because the mentality is still there even if the "cravings are under arrest by the bupe and/or done. I think the only way a doctor should kick us out etc…Is if they have offered comprehensive therapy to include relapse prevention and then seen we just are not investing ourselves in our treatment. Just giving us a medicine that controls cravings and withdrawals alone does not help us at all when and if they kick us to the curb. Why these doctors are so shocked, pissed or wanting to punish us for behaving like addicts is when they are not treating the behaviors or causes should be up for examination to some type of board review etc… They are treating the symptoms. (It’s kind of like cough syrup instead of antibiotics for bacterial flu) Cravings and/or withdrawals are symptoms/side effects of a much larger issue called addiction.
If they want to be considered addictionologist, then they should be accountable for their treatment administered to their clients. Do doctors normally kick clients to the curb that are diabetics because they eat too much sugar? Or Cardiologist kicks patients out because they smoke? If they did and these clients die because they cannot get their medications are they liable? They should be. And…to a degree, I am sure they are liable. Now I know there has to be a line drawn somewhere in the sand so as to a client cannot get their medications and continue to use illicit drugs, but that is why they should offer any and all services to help arrest the disease and then when the client still continues to behave like an addict, then their efforts (the doctors) have been made and the client is now accountable. I am sure some will disagree and I admit this is just my opinion.
I am not so sure about Bupe doctors as I have been on bupe but it was years ago and it was the subutex form and it was in a detox setting several times. I used it not as maintenance so to say, but with methadone if you continually use they usually don’t kick you to the curb they do not let you take the advantages of level changes and/or take homes etc…
I am not sure as to why your doctor kicked you to the curb and maybe that link you provide above will say why, but I can almost for sure say that the doctor had not offered you all the services he should have to include relapse prevention and by kicking you out, he shows his lack of commitment to his clients as what if you would have suffered dearly? What if you in a day’s time etc…are lying dead in a shooting gallery somewhere? Was whatever you did so badly to deserve that? Someone somewhere and sometime soon needs to find that line in the sand and set up some accountability for these doctors that play GOD. Thank You for letting me vent my thoughts and feelings on your post. I hope I have not deflected the original post and/or your subject matter or post will still be responded to in the manner best fit for your needs. I am sorry this has happened to you and I hope you have a plan. We cannot depend on these doctors to always do what’s best so we need a plan.

Author: finallyachance

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:26 pm

Why all the defensiveness? All our stories are different and really the only common consistent thread I see is we suffer from addiction. Does it really matter who jumped off what and felt what when and how much so much that it becomes a personal attack? And…I mean this to Golden1and no one else as this is where all the dissension started. I know it is very important that we try to relay the best message we can to others that need to know “the truthâ€� of what to expect, but the truth can be different for each and everyone. And all we do by condescension and/or minimizing someone’s experience is confuse the person that is looking for answers. I use to wonder why moderator’s would even be a necessity and it’s times like this that I see they are. I think broncofan is due congratulations not condescension. And by that I don’t mean this Quote: “Congratulations. It would seem that after four posts not ONE person gets the point I’m trying to make. I think you have your mind so made up that you don’t even READ them.â€� The reason no-one is getting your point, is because no-one can get past the attitude so prevalent in your posts. It might be nice to give us your success story, your way and let the individuals decide whether they do it your way or bronco’s way. We love options that is why a lot of us are here searching all these post for a way to make our own. I really have tried not to respond to this thread as not to compound or complicate it any further than already done, but I feel the need to personally congratulate Broncofan and re-inforce what the majority is ruling here that we do not have to attack, humiliate, degrade etc…to get a point across. And secondly invite you to tell us how you did it so we have another perspective to go by evidenced by your success not your calling someone down for the way they did it.

Author: hatmaker510

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:27 pm

Hey again, Ladder. I’m really glad it’s not all that bad for you.

I was trying to find some "natural" things that also might help PAWS symptoms and I came across this page – http://whatmesober.com/personal-writing-about-addiction-and-recovery/early-recovery/paws/ .

You might have read this or something quite similar, but I thought I’d pass it on anyway (for others that may not have read it). It also mentions diet including what you said about the sugar and other things such as meditation and exercise, to name just a couple.

It’s not a site I frequent (in fact it seems to be 12-step based and you know how I feel about most of their ideas), but I believe what they are offering has value. Our bodies were being fed powerful opiates for in some cases over dozens of years. Now they are on their own, so it’s the perfect time to get serious about giving our bodies exactly what they need to be running at maximum efficiency. This is why it’s so important during this time to take the best care of oneself as possible – physically, emotionally, and mentally (and for some, perhaps spiritually as well).

I know you know all this, Ladder, but again, this is mostly for the benefit of others who might be reading this who haven’t yet tapered off suboxone.

Maybe there’s something on that site that can help you as well, ladder. I hope so. Keep your chin up – which it sounds like you’re already doing.

Honestly, woman, I think you’re doing really well. Keep up the good work. The work you’ve done on your taper has been very helpful to many people around here. I’m glad you’ve shared it all with us.

Take care.

Author: hatmaker510

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:54 pm

When I was in active addiction myself, I’m pretty damn sure my usage led to hyperalgesia. A large amount of my pain went away when I started on suboxone. Since then (over 3 years ago), my pain is of course still present, but for the most part manageable. I’m still disabled and I still have good days and still have hellish days. But I’m not as miserable as when I was in active addiction – I always thought my pain was going to kill me back then.

I know we’ve talked about opiate-induced hyperalgesia before on this site. Lately we’ve touched on whether or not suboxone also can induce hyperalgesia. I found myself curious so I did a cursory search and this is something I found:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21114985

It’s just the abstract, so I’ll just paste it here:

Obviously, low vs high dose bupe is part of the equation and we’re all on high dose bupe – that’s clear to me, as was the first part of the abstract. But considering I’ve had 5 hours of sleep in the last 50+ hours, I’m not all that clear right now and the abstract lost me at the end.

Thoughts on the meaning of this? It’s pretty clear that there are little to no studies on this. The article itself said, "Little is known about buprenorphine-induced hyperalgesia." And this study was conducted with rats and "ultra-low" doses, which BTW, wasn’t even defined in the abstract, so we don’t even know how they define "ultra low". Also, I’ve searched high and low to find access to the whole study and it’s methods, but only the abstract is available.

I’d really be interested to hear others’ take on this – maybe from someone who can translate some of this into layman’s terms for us non-genius folks?