How do i start?

Author: oiler1995

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:48 pm

I know you’s are saying to get a sub doctor.That 20 subs is not enough.I was on the methadone maintenance program years ago for a year.I was taking 80 mg’s for that year and got thrown out of the program for missing a few appointments and went cold turkey.It was worse then hell and the withdrawels lasted a very long time,especially the sleep.I would of gave my right leg for an hour of sleep.But i am here talking about it,so it can be done.I am scared to go on subs on a regular basis,because i don’t want to have to take them forever.And i can’t let my family find out.I thought these 20 subs that i have will just help my withdrawel from the H be a bit easier,using it as a tool during withdrawel.The H that i get really isn’t that potent,so my withdrawel shouldn’t be as bad as really good high end H.Or maybe my tolerance is so high that even high end H doesn’t make me feel high anymore.Beautifuldisaster,i live outside of Binghamton,i am also about 4 hours from NYC.Yes,plenty of bars,LOL.

Doctors are abusing this program as much as I abused drugs

Author: Luna-C

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:05 pm

This post is why I just joined this forum. My prescribing Doc & I had a confrontation re: methadone about 3 years before I started Suboxone therapy. Unfortunately my referral to a Suboxone Doc sent me back to him. ur "professional" relationship has been chilly, uncomfortable and lacking in his support & encouragement of my attempts to taper down and discontinue the Sub.

I have some interesting stories about some unethical & unprofessional behaviors…..but maybe not anything that he can be legally held accountable for. I am frustrated by his practices for myself but more so when considering other recovering addicts who have fallen prey to his practices.

With whom can I discuss some disconcerting issues that I have experienced?

NA vs Individual Therapy

Author: TeeJay

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:56 pm

In NA they say "What you see hear, and what you hear here, let it stay here…" The reality couldn’t be further from the truth. People talk, and especially in a small town, I can imagine it wouldn’t be long before word got out.

The quality of one-to-one counselling depends a lot on the counselor. I’d suggest if you’re not getting what you need from your first counsellor, try another one. I understand options can be limited in a small town, but equally there’s not much to lose should you shop around for someone better.

The AA thing people have suggested has some merit. I’ve known many addicts who end up doing more AA than NA, even when they have no issues with alcohol. The good thing about AA is that alcoholism is still more socially accepted than addiction to narcotics. Should word get out that you’ve been attending AA, people will likely be less judgmental than if word got out that you were an addict. You may find people will actually approach you from a place of compassion rather than judgment. I’ve even found telling the cops I’m attending AA meetings goes down a lot better than saying I’m a member in NA.

AA is also more open minded to pharmacotherapies like Suboxone than NA. NA by nature takes a more hardline approach to medication because many addicts in the rooms have issues with medication abuse. AA focuses more on alcohol, so what medication you choose to take is less of their business than in NA.

In your situation you might find that being linked into more than one support network helps you achieve the balance you’re after. This forum is already obviously one of those. It can’t hurt to check out AA as well as 1-on-1 counselling. The only negative behind mixing it up is that there can be conflicting opinions on recovery. In that case, take what you need and leave the rest.

Jumped from 0.5mg / 4 days off now / Not so bad / WHY?

Author: lack of armour

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:46 pm

RXFCG: I’m not sure why i got off so easy. I was fully prepared to suffer. Without a doubt, jumping off from a low dose is essential. For me though, part of it has to be mental. I wanted off these meds so badly. Was ready. Had no hesitation and did not waver. I think a large part of this is sincerely being ready to make a change. Over time, those side-effects just brought me down to nothing. The choice to get off was easy for me at the end of my 2 year stint. It’s interesting. This particular section of the forum has a lot of cold hard reality about how suboxone diminishes you as a vibrant human being. For sure, subs saved me. Got me off bad street drugs and allowed me to start building a solid foundation/establish healthier routines. But the last 2 years are kind of a blur to me. As far as the jump, I prepared as much as I could beforehand. Eating well. I was taking a bunch of vitamins for the whole month I was tapering, and will continue to do so (Omega 3 capsules, B complex, a food based multivitamin, vitamin D). I did not hang out in bed. Tried to plow through the day. Walking the dog. Just getting out in the sun.

I don’t know. Just glad to be off. I do get tired at night a lot earlier than i am used to (i am a night owl). I figure that will pass.
RXFCG, you have to do it. If you are sincere about staying away from the opiates, then there are only positives about stopping suboxone. Truly.

For my friends and contacts and doubters and etc.

Author: lack of armour

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Donechasing wrote:
It’s day 22 for me, and the sun is starting shine again, if only occasionally.

I took sub for near 4 months, and just couldn’t stand the emotional and physical flat tire it
Caused me. Everyone is different, but I will say this, the separation, while uncomfortable, was way
Easier than stopping oxy. For those who don’t know me, I had a five year oxy habit, 180 mg daily, that spun
Out of control a year ago and landed me in legal trouble over a forge script.
I took avg 12 mg sub for the last four months to kick the oxy.

Now, I am not suggesting life is perfect by any means, but I can think, do basic physical
Demands, and actually feel laughter and sadness again, something that bupe blocked out
Altogether with a slight energy boost.

I have researched every thread by webmd to steadyhealth and all info on this sight, and must
Reinforce that for me, I could never have reorganized my life on the drug. I was in a suspended
Animation state of living with no senses. I equate or liken my sub time as locking life down, almost like
The valley of oxy detox right when life stops hurting but doesn’t feel good either. I had no self esteem, no
Vision, no priority schedule. It was worse for me on the memory issue than full agonist, and no vigor whatsoever.

Actually, sometimes, no many times, an hour or so after dosing with sub I would get confused , depressed, and
Socially withdrawn. I believe (just my opinion), this drug is more penal to the body than full opioid agonist. I never
Felt ‘good’ on sub.

Physically I never had diahrea, or GI troubles at all. My worst symptom was no motivation, motor skill (accident prone) issues,
And lackluster appetite, occasional headaches.

Now, to sum it up, at day 22, I don’t have the slightest sub craving. I do still carry craving for oxy, but only that initial rush and energy,
Not the daily mental and emotional jail it had me in, always feeling guilty that I couldn’t breathe or do anything without a pill.

Partial agonist is something I’ll stay away from. I once had a dealer in Vegas tell me ‘if I’m gonna do drugs, I’m gonna do GOOD drugs.
Well put.

Now if I can just give up cigarettes …… One step at a time.

Donechasing: I can relate to every precise side-effect you listed. I had all of those things (lethargy/social anxiety/memory loss/foggy head/clumsiness). Also had severe unrecognizable depression that came about a year in to my 2 year stint on suboxone. For sure, everyone reacts differently to this medication, but it is reassuring to find common ground with lots of people on here about what they went through. I didn’t read this forum or research the side effects until a few weeks ago, and spent 2 years slowly going crazy. Always questioning if it was the medication or just my broken head. Am now 8 days off these meds and feeling so much better for it.

is this it?

Author: rule62

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:52 am


I’m not saying you are incorrect on your information, it is the delivery of it that has me concerned. Someone comes here asking a question and you jump down their throat at their opening remarks. Come on man, that is not the way to welcome a new member.

There are different ways to get your point across w/o insulting people. Can you not see that? If you want to leave, fine. It’s your choice. You talk about what Dr. J said years ago so I suggest you also read his rules of behavior.

And the PM thing was my mistake. I normally don’t publically warn a member in a thread. I use the PM method. My mistake. In fact, please PM me and we’ll hash this out there.

To rehab, or not to rehab… Is that the question?

Author: TeeJay

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:55 am

Thanks everyone.

ATM I’m definitely leaning towards the mid-term / long-term rehab option. I’ve had some success with them in the past, and spending a lot of the last 3 years since that 13-months of clean time has made me cherish abstinence so much more that I know I’ll be putting my heart and soul into staying off. Unfortunately in my home city, public rehabs have waiting lists as long as my arms. The ideal rehab isn’t even considering adding more people to the list until July.

So once again I’m looking interstate, of which the ideal candidate is a rehab by the name of WHOS (We Help Ourselves). Funny name I know. When I first mentioned it to my family, the exchange was almost worthy of a Monty Python sketch "Where are you going?" "WHOS" "You said you were" "I know I said I was" "So why are you asking who’s" "The place is called WHOS ffs" "Oh . . ."

The program itself is called MTAR, MTAR standing for "Methadone to Abstinence Residential". What is it with all the acronyms? Anyhow, it’s a program that focuses on getting people off Methadone and Suboxone, and into abstinence based recovery – ie the 12-steps, NA / AA, and getting on with their lives. Tapering is done over the first 3 months of the program, with residents taking on the responsibility of running the rehab over the last 3 months. I guess it just depends on waiting lists how long it’ll take me to get in. I hope it won’t be too long. Programs like WHOS have a high turnover of residents because of how strict the regimen is.

Will keep ya’ll posted. Writing this stuff helps me make it real in my own head, given how foggy I’ve been lately I’ve noticed it’s good to write things down. I can’t remember slabs of March / April. Confused

I’ll keep calling, and if the plan materialises, I’ll have to start organising myself. This will mean selling my car and some property to pay off a slab of my debt, and seeing the Quackiatrist to have letters and medication sorted out to get me through the 6 months… etc etc