need some adivce – urgent !

Author: scruffy

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:54 pm

As you probably have discovered a truism about Subs is "less is more" and yet- with just about everything else—-
more is better. So that habit is very hard to break.

But no matter what it is always much better to be right on schedule and not rely on anyone to help you out when you run out– especially the doctor. He may be nice, but his certification is riding on not being off schedule.

Here we have a safe- with a combination. Every morning my wife puts out the exact amount for the day – and it really does work well. You get used to the right amount and feel better, and never have to be waiting two days. I know that does not help the current month–but just do it this way and it is sure to work from now on.

And it does seem there is a dose/response below 8mg, So it is less, and feels like less. Depending on your goal you might discuss this with the doctor. Above 8mg more is never going to help much.

Dropping my dose after 3.5 years

Author: finallyachance

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:55 pm

I am trying to figure out how to catch up as I am real interested in your situation can you please give me a brief synopsis on this please….???…..

What is the deal with the masses on the lungs???? I did see the post about the jerk doctor. I wanted to tell you that I am on methadone and for the first year and half of my MMT I was constantly being intimidated about being on high dose methadone because I had a EKG at admission showing I had qtc interval at 521 and then another EKG at my year check up at qtc interval 527. My doctor was not happy with those numbers at all and still suffering withdrawals and cravings at 160 milligrams after 2 years of MMT he did not relish increasing me, but allowing me to exercise "informed consent" he did increase me to 210 milligrams in a split dose which I now have no withdrawals not cravings, but my chart would get pulled or I would run into him in the hallway and he would start up the old discussion about me getting off methadone and going on suboxone instead. He would forget each time all we had discussed previously about why I did not want to go on suboxone…i.e. too expensive and I had tried and failed three times on suboxone even on 32 milligrams a day all he could always remember was I had high qtc intervals. This became a pain in my ass always feeling threatened, always avoiding him in the hallway on Thursdays, his clinic day my pick up takehomes day, and always feeling like there will be that day that my excuses just won’t matter to him anymore and informed consent will be jerked from me. So with this pain in the ass, and the motivating factor that wow after two years I am finally stable and it is all working very well for me, I made an appointment with a private doctor for a physical. Secretly I was going to talk this doctor into okaying me for methadone regardless qtc prolongation as I was going to plea with him that me being on methadone with elevated qtc’s was safer than me being on opiates on the street.

Hang on I am getting to the part that will be relative to (I think) your issue. I did not think what happened would even be anything near the truth to ending of my story. So I make this appointment with this clinic which is a sliding scale fee clinic thinking that I would have to go thru this option to be referred to a cardiologist because I could not afford the $180.00 office fee (not including an EKG or other test) any and all test would be even more i.e. a separate charge. Wow this was too much just to see if I could get a cardiologist to agree drugs on the street could make my chances with "torsades des pointes" even more fatal than methadone. Plus I knew this would be a shot in the dark as most doctor’s of any kind are not pro MMT especially with methadone. They are a bit friendlier with suboxone. I more than likely was going to get the opinion that my doctor is right by suggesting the Suboxone, but I did have this little voice, probably called "wishful thinkin" that made me feel I did not have qtc prolongation at all regardless what the EKG said because I did not have any of the symptoms that are associated with this problem. This was going to be a long waiting and wanting process that might be for nothing but I was not worried about it hurting me because I was doing all this in secret.

So I go to my appointment at this clinic, I pay $20.00 for my fee and I am rehearsing my introduction and plea statement when this real friendly young quirky doctor comes in the room and slaps the exam table and say’s pop up here little lady and tell me whats going on with ya. Totally not what I was expecting….I was expecting the regular stoic conservative bow tie wearing old geezers to come in with a suspicious magnifying glass who was going to be scanning me and my arms for needle tracks etc…In fact it caught me so off guard and he was so inviting, I just broke down in tears immediately, told him my story about 30 years of drug abuse and attempts at getting off drugs and how I was now on methadone for over two years that was working great, but I had this doctor who was fearful of my qtc intervals and making threats to take it all away from me etc…you get the jest. He had at one point pulled up the only chair in the room and had sat down but he never made me feel like I needed to shut up or dry it up etc…he just listened. When I got to the end of my emotional melt down he said well let’s get to the bottom of this and see if we can’t keep you on your methadone and off the street drugs.

He got up reached in a drawer under my table told me to disrobe and put on this luxurious paper gown he handed me and he left. I think had things not played out like they did I would have flunked the EKG from panic alone and looking back I think that’s what happened at the methadone clinic on both their EKG’s because the nurse prior to doing my EKG had told me that they look for qtc intervals which could cause hardship to me being able to stay on methadone and I panicked right then because I had this "stinkin thinkin" I’m different nothing was going to work for me and if it did I would not be able to stay on it anyway for one reason or the other. But all the same…..back to this visit, the nurse rolls this big bulky EKG machine in the room hooks me up turns it on took about 35 seconds and she looked at the 8 x 10 (not a strip) paper that printed out of the machine. All the while I am looking at her face for the results as while she was hooking me up I had filled her into a quick and brief synopsis on my past two EKG’s but I saw only confusion on her face…so I ask her is it bad and she states to me nothing personal but I am not allowed to tell you the results I will give this to the doctor. Great I thought that’s it….all this for what may be nothing I can do. The doctor immediately came in the room waving this paper in the air saying you don’t have qtc prolongation at all. In fact your qtc intervals are great.

Well what do I do???? I start telling him there is no way…they did it twice over there, both times it showed numbers in the 520’s…something is wrong with your machine etc….He stood there looking at me not saying anything to interrupt me but when I finished ranting he said okay well let’s do it the long old fashion way. He left the room and came back with this little machine that he said was his portable mobile EKG machine and said he was going to use this machine so I could not second guess the machines, he himself hooked up the leads and took a what I would say was a three to five minute all the while spitting out this strip of paper that he was intermittently writing on this strip . Then he pulled this strip off sat down was penciling down things and VIOLA….same figures or pretty close the one machine said 390 raw 409 qtc and this one figured up to be 403…..No more argument from me…He ask me if I wanted a copy of the results are did I want him to call the doctor and talk to him for me. I told him the paper was fine. He went further to say cardiology was his prospective specialty and he had worked for a methadone clinic 5 years prior immediately after med school and he totally understood the concerns/conflicts with methadone and qtc intervals.

BINGO…I had hit the jackpot with this guy. He did some blood set me up for a hospital chest X-ray because I told him I sometimes show a slight reaction to TB Test and since I was not going to have to see a cardiologist (referral) I told him of a issue I had been having with severe stomach pain with vomiting etc..that had sent me to the ER several times in the last six months. He set me up for a gastro referral, some further intensive bloodwork (because I am convinced my stomach pain disorder is a common bile duct stone) gave me those appt referrals and the 8×10 paper that looked like a heart strip but had all my numbers spelled out in black and white from the EKG and sent me on my way. I left there on cloud nine. Made a special trip to the clinic to deliver my paper. Explained to my counselor what I had done making the special appointment and all ask her if she would give the results to the doctor in hopes he would just drop all the nonsense talk of me going off methadone and I ask her to please let me know his reaction. She did so called me and said he was delighted to the results and they would be getting to the bottom of why mine and apparently others results had been proven different than the ones taken there at the clinic. I thought mine was the only NOT….

Well I go do the bloodwork and chest xray. Find out the gastro doctor will not see me until I make good on a $4000.00 dollar outstanding bill I have from a previous surgery where 3 years earlier he had removed a common bile stone and I get a call from this clinic and doctor telling me something strange had shown up on my chest xray….a mass. I freaked the fuck out. I knew it… another problem….plus all of a sudden my memory has this real hazy memory of a doctor telling me one time approx 5 or 6 years ago when I was hospitalized for kidney stones….that I had a suspect chest xray, but because of active addiction I failed to ever look into. I had been told then, I had a couple of nodules in my lower right lung. Well I went in to see the same doctor at the clinic that had referred me to all these test who said he was sending me to a pulmonary doc not a gastro doc and the reason being he placed this lung issue more urgent now then the gastro issue He said he himself had actually viewed the Chest Xray and a CT Scan on CD that the radiologist had searched and found and sent along a suspect xray and CT scan I had 5 or 6 years ago (that I had already remembered myself) and they all saw and agreed that directly beside the nodules and now mass is a lymph gland/node called the “Hilar Glandâ€� and it is enlarged/swollen and this now takes on a very urgent note as far as what’s most important between pulmonary or gastro etc….

Well I am sure y’all know my next question was OMG do I have cancer? He told me that is why I am going to the pulmonary doc. I ask him why the immediate urgency and he stated the enlarged gland was not mentioned in the dictation report he had been sent from the xray but when he saw it and then took it to the lead physician at the clinic they both became concerned as the hilar gland enlargement is the biggest concern even more so than the nodules and or mass. I left very fearful with a referral to a pulmonary doctor that I was not prepared to pay for nor see. All that day I spent in consideration that I may have cancer, either lung cancer or lymphoma from what I had read and so in panic and wonder of now if I do have cancer about my MMT. I was beside myself. I was freaking the fuck out I went from accepting my possible fate wavering back and forth with nothing being consistent emotionally but yhe constant desire to GET HIGH. This is just me being honest. I kept thinking What can I do? What can I expect? Are cancer patients still in MMT? Will they just expect me to focus solely on the cancer and risk my getting high? If I lose my methadone in this kind of state (cancer) I am doomed to get high for sure.

I know you must be thinking I was crazy to worry about the methadone issue if I had cancer looming over my head but I had no control over what all I was feeling, thinking or assuming. In the end…It was not cancer. In fact it was not even bigger than what it had been 6 years ago they just called it different names nodules in the past and mass in the present but because of the difference in the names I went way out there in my own mind. The hilar gland that had been what worried my doctor the most must have been enlarged and/or swollen from a respiratory infection I had that I was thinking was bad smokers cough. I quit smoking though as I realized just how scared I got when I realized I had finally got my ducks at least headed in the right direction and then BAM in a brief moment…. I was convinced of the worst. I was sure I had cancer and I was making all these plans to start weaning myself off methadone before they did etc…I was already playing out in my head all the drugs I may have at my disposal if I indeed I had cancer. I was looking up to see how much morphine I was going to need to ask for so I could be as comfortable on that as I was on methadone….I could go on and on but really I took the long ass way to tell you the story of how I mind fucked myself all over the place from qtc issues to cancer then to what turned out to be nothing no where near what I thought it was. MORAL OF THE STORY here is don’t do anything "to do" or "undo" or even "possibly jeopardize" where you are in your "successful state of MAT" until you know the truth of it all. Keyword successful. Why possibly subject yourself to being in pain now or in the future when there exist the possibility that all could be just fine….

I probably should have waited until you clarified your predicament better for me as I am behind on all the elements of your situation but I had it all flushing and racing through my mind while I was reading your pain and dilemma with the titration of your dose, the pain and the worry etc…Good luck and I will be looking into your thread as I don’t visit here as much because I am on methadone and methadone is not followed as closely in topics on here as suboxone is, hence Suboxone Zone lol, but the relations are very similar. Tonya Very Happy Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Tough Choice

Author: news_poster

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:00 am

I have been struggling with part II, primarily because there are no easy answers to the situation. I realize that I could easily criticize whichever path a doctor suggests for our imaginary patient. As an aside, I believe that a major reason for the lack of sufficient prescribers of buprenorphine in some parts of the […]

Read more…

Source: Suboxone Talk Zone
A recovering psychiatrist talks about Suboxone, treatment for opiate dependence and chronic pain. Includes questions and answers with addicts and patients on Suboxone.

I’m a dumb asshole….I’ve got to stop….

Author: reach

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:19 am

Let me start by saying that I’m fully aware of how much of a dumb asshole I am for getting myself into this position…

Over 3 years ago I began suboxone treatment for a burgeoning heroin addiction; I wasn’t a daily user yet, only because I refused to steal/rob/cheat/scam/etc to cover my habit so if I had no dope money, I just suffered. At that point the wds I would experience were like a hangover that doesn’t go away. For about the first year I would freely switch between suboxone and heroin, using the suboxone when I ran out of dope money…..until I overdosed. The love of my life found me dead, saved my life, and told me put it down or say goodbye. So I did.

A few months later, being the genious addict that I am, I found out that, guess what, suboxone can go in a rig, too! I found that by injecting just a portion of my prescribed dose I would feel an absolute sessation of cravings, and because of the half-life I only needed to dose every other day. At some point that year I stopped sublingually dosing entirely.

Two years later and I IV my entire dose, requiring two injections a day. Last month, for the first time, I ran short.

Bupe no longer has any effect on my cravings, it simply keeps me from experiencing withdrawals. I want off. I NEEEEED to get off before this addiction costs me a LIMB or gives me a stroke…but….the severity and duration of my addiction lead me to beleive (from what I have read) that withdrawing from suboxone, despite a slow taper, is still going to be at least 1 month of pure hell WDs followed by at least a year of….less than normal functioning as my brain repairs itself. That scares the hell out of me (and I’m generally a border-line deathwish ballsy motherfucker) and I know I won’t make it through that year without relapse.

I just don’t know what the fuck to do….

All I can think to do is taper down over the next two months as far as possible then jump to a full agonist (either street heroin or a prescription of oxycodone sourced from I won’t say where Wink ) long enough for the bupe to be out of my system for a few weeks (so maybe a month on oral oxy?) and then hop on naltrexone tabs or something once I detox off the oxy.

I just want to live…….and that’s not happening as long as I’m a BUPE JUNKIE.

Please…anybody…somebody help….

sex drive in women

Author: BrittanyEden

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:31 am

this is my 3rd time on sub, and my last I’m extremely determined.
i have however noticed a extreme drop in my sexdrive. I’m a 24 year old female and before sunoxone my sexdrive was always very high, to give u an example i would get myself off almost everyday and when my bf is home all i wanted was him. now I’m lucky if sex even crosses my mind. I’m completely useless in that area and my bf has deff noticed and he’s only here for a week every month, so its bad! iv read other post and I’m seeing this isn’t an isolated problem. its not only my sexdrive that suffering….iv been getting very emotional and have a hard time verbalizing whats making me upset almost like i have no idea why Iv become so sensitive. i sleep allot and just in general pretty miserable but i try not to show it. so my question is dose anyone have an advice or has anything worked for u? I’m going to try 5-HTP see if that helps at all but still id love some feedback. really glad i found this site! good luck to u all!

In pain and scared

Author: Goinstrong

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:50 am

Hi guys. I am going to try to make as much sense as possible. I just got done crying so I’m more than a little upset abou this.

Ok, I have chronic pain. My dose of suboxone is 16mg. Split to 8 and 8. I have consistently had pain in between doses since I began treatment with sub 2 months ago. I have tried taking 4 4 and 8, 8 4 and 4, etc… I finally tried the 8 8 8, and got relief from my pain. Here s the problem. I am going to talk to my doctor today. He had said to me when I was being induced that he does not prescribe more than 16mg, EVER. No exceptions.

I know that my biggest trigger for me to relapse is pain. I am scared to death to talk to him today. He is almost certainly going to say no. I don’t understand this type of thinking. I know that eventually I could probably get my dose down to 4 4 4, but after I am stabilized on the 8 8 8. Does that make sense? I’ve already tried 4 4 8 combination and it is NOT cutting it. I am ok with being on 24 mg. At least for a while. Then, going 8 4 8, or something like that. I hope this is making sense.

I am so scared of relapsing right now. I have got my freaking life together and dont want to give that up over PAIN!!!!!!!!!!! CRAP NOW IM CRYING AGAIN,. Im sorry, i just dont know what to do. My doctor is nice 99% of the time. But as thickheaded as they come. He truly has a one size fits all approach to this. I totally get 16mg being fine, even high, for addiction only. But realisticly, I am new to sub, in pain, and just not ready to taper yet. I am not against it later. But I have to keep my shit together for a little while before I am comfortable with a dropin dose.

I hope this makes sense. Please get back to me. I am so confused and scared. I NEVER want to take painkillers again. I CANT. I will end up eating 20 a day again.

why do i crave so much sugar?

Author: Goinstrong

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:11 am

Hello Brittany and welcome to the forum! I have the same problem! Though I don’t know that I would consider it a problem for me! LOL I love it! I crave cookies for some reason since being on sub. I don’t have an answer for you as to why, but I can tell you that you are not alone!

Maybe some one with some knowledge on this will come along and fill us both in!

giving up

Author: johnboy

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:45 pm

one sarotonin level is the one that maintains your daily living all most . my doc put me on a med that lifted all the feelings,
of anxiaty depression sleep fibromalgia witch now i only have for a couple hours in the morning. the level i’m talking about
helped me a lot do to lexapro, and it dose not work for every one.
i have been on it for over a year now, and it seems it is not working as good any more.

giving up

Author: johnboy

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:45 pm

one sarotonin level is the one that maintains your daily living all most . my doc put me on a med that lifted all the feelings,
of anxiaty depression sleep fibromalgia witch now i only have for a couple hours in the morning. the level i’m talking about
helped me a lot do to lexapro, and it dose not work for every one.
i have been on it for over a year now, and it seems it is not working as good any more.