Author: DaftNotStupid

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:49 pm

I sent this as a private message to the chart’s author, but not getting a response after a few days, I thought I’d post it here too:

I like your taper model but I’ve found a problem with it. Using the default 37 hour half-life, it seems to work pretty well, but as the half-life is increased towards 72 – a frequently specified number, though I have also seen 37 to 72 mentioned as a range – the graph looks increasingly wrong. According to your model, while a single 1mg dose taken on day 1 decays to 0.5 after one day using a 24 hour half-life – what you would expect – it never decays at 48 hours, and grows to nearly 130Kg over 30 days at 72. This is obviously wrong – maybe someone else could check it out.

I have a few other comments and questions:

How go you calculate the plasma levels from the actual dose? Have you thought of building in activation time into your model – I’ve seen numbers like 30-60 mins to full effectiveness. I’ve also seen mention to variable sloped decay.
I can tell that you calculate the residual once per day, adding it to the next dose. That’s what I do in my spreadsheet model, as well. I was thinking about this approach, and wondered if the drug actually decays more quickly – if you calculate the half-life hourly rather than daily, you get slightly different results.
It would be useful if you could specify a daily dose, instead of having to input each day separately. Being able to input or change each day’s dose will help people who want to see their levels when planning their tapers and final skips

J

Author: Fireman

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:20 pm

I was never really addicted to cocaine or any other drug that gave me cravings. I have noticed a far less desire to drink alcohol. Opiates and alcohol were the only substances I ever got cravings for and now I never, I mean NEVER, get desires to drink. The only time I ever had a problem with alcohol was when I was in active addiction and drank to avoid the intense withdrawal effects from oxycodone. Every once in a while I drink in moderation and don’t enjoy it as much as I used to.

I’m very curious why we feel this way. It makes me wonder if suboxone could be used to treat addiction for other drugs with a very low dose. I’m clearly not the only one who feels this way and it is a positive side effect of the drug for us all. Anyone experience the same with alcohol?

Edit: Lilly, what do you mean drinking doesn’t do the same for you? Do you mean you don’t get drunk, enjoy it, or affects you in a different way? And by the way, I too have been eating more sweets than ever and wasn’t sure if anyone else was like that. In addiction, when our using went down something in our life went up and replaced that behavior with something else.

Author: Fireman

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:20 pm

I was never really addicted to cocaine or any other drug that gave me cravings. I have noticed a far less desire to drink alcohol. Opiates and alcohol were the only substances I ever got cravings for and now I never, I mean NEVER, get desires to drink. The only time I ever had a problem with alcohol was when I was in active addiction and drank to avoid the intense withdrawal effects from oxycodone. Every once in a while I drink in moderation and don’t enjoy it as much as I used to.

I’m very curious why we feel this way. It makes me wonder if suboxone could be used to treat addiction for other drugs with a very low dose. I’m clearly not the only one who feels this way and it is a positive side effect of the drug for us all. Anyone experience the same with alcohol?

Edit: Lilly, what do you mean drinking doesn’t do the same for you? Do you mean you don’t get drunk, enjoy it, or affects you in a different way? And by the way, I too have been eating more sweets than ever and wasn’t sure if anyone else was like that. In addiction, when our using went down something in our life went up and replaced that behavior with something else.

Author: Downtime

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:40 pm

hey ambernicole,

i was reading a your story and i can really relate, same here with the back problem and then the subs. i did a really short taper tho after 3 years – i pretty much dropped of 16mg-0mg in just a few weeks. DRs told me too that anything below 1mg doesnt do anything for you and its all mental from there… complete BS. i feel most just hand out the meds and dont have a clue how to use them properly.

im about 5 weeks off suboxone. and i got to say it DOES get better may not be day to day but you will get better with time. the first 7days were so brutal i remember about day 5-6 thinking to myself theres no way i can do this i dont want to be like this. i felt like i was dragging a boat anchor around with me. but rest assure it goes way.

only advise i can give you is get a support system going with people you trust (which it sounds like you have) & blast music through your headphones. it will bring you back to reality. it sounds like your doing awesome and your doing all the right things. you dont know how huge that is that your still working. keep it up.

oh also you said something about anxiety – there are non narcotics that really helped me vistaril(anxiety) & clonidine(paws) sleep(trazadone), talk to your DR about them, really help take the edge off. id try and ditch the benzos sooner rather then later. and if you only been on this for 4 months you should have this is in the bad already.

Good Luck, you got this.

Author: Downtime

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:40 pm

hey ambernicole,

i was reading a your story and i can really relate, same here with the back problem and then the subs. i did a really short taper tho after 3 years – i pretty much dropped of 16mg-0mg in just a few weeks. DRs told me too that anything below 1mg doesnt do anything for you and its all mental from there… complete BS. i feel most just hand out the meds and dont have a clue how to use them properly.

im about 5 weeks off suboxone. and i got to say it DOES get better may not be day to day but you will get better with time. the first 7days were so brutal i remember about day 5-6 thinking to myself theres no way i can do this i dont want to be like this. i felt like i was dragging a boat anchor around with me. but rest assure it goes way.

only advise i can give you is get a support system going with people you trust (which it sounds like you have) & blast music through your headphones. it will bring you back to reality. it sounds like your doing awesome and your doing all the right things. you dont know how huge that is that your still working. keep it up.

oh also you said something about anxiety – there are non narcotics that really helped me vistaril(anxiety) & clonidine(paws) sleep(trazadone), talk to your DR about them, really help take the edge off. id try and ditch the benzos sooner rather then later. and if you only been on this for 4 months you should have this is in the bad already.

Good Luck, you got this.

Author: Susanne

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:45 pm

I really do not know a lot about Methadone. But I have been on Sub for 4 days and although I have no withdrawls I am having other issues, that make it extremely difficult to work. Right now I am taking 2mgs 2 times a day, I have also tried 3 times a days as well as 4mg. 2 mg stop the withdrawl but here are my issues: I have extreme chronic pain, and this is not helping. i am sluring my words and everything looks like it is in slow motions. The dr. gave me riddilin but I still can not focus like I need to and I am very uncoordinated. My blurred vision makes it difficult to read documents and i find I am confused… brain fog even on riddiling. I am afraid if I do not deal with the pain, I will got back to using and I DO NOT want that. HELP!! IDEAS?

Author: Susanne

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:45 pm

I really do not know a lot about Methadone. But I have been on Sub for 4 days and although I have no withdrawls I am having other issues, that make it extremely difficult to work. Right now I am taking 2mgs 2 times a day, I have also tried 3 times a days as well as 4mg. 2 mg stop the withdrawl but here are my issues: I have extreme chronic pain, and this is not helping. i am sluring my words and everything looks like it is in slow motions. The dr. gave me riddilin but I still can not focus like I need to and I am very uncoordinated. My blurred vision makes it difficult to read documents and i find I am confused… brain fog even on riddiling. I am afraid if I do not deal with the pain, I will got back to using and I DO NOT want that. HELP!! IDEAS?

Author: Bboy42287

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:53 pm

Most clinics will mix juice or something in take homes so I doubt it happens often I mean nobody’s shooting koolaid up lol. But if u get a lazy nurse that doesn’t mix it than yea I’m sure pepople do!

Author: Bboy42287

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:53 pm

Most clinics will mix juice or something in take homes so I doubt it happens often I mean nobody’s shooting koolaid up lol. But if u get a lazy nurse that doesn’t mix it than yea I’m sure pepople do!

Author: weak_and_powerless

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:38 am

Hi all,
I’ve been on 8mgs of suboxone since September. The first week I felt like I didn’t even need a half of a pill.it was so strong. Then after about a month, 8mgs seemed like the perfect dose. A couple months ago, someone told me that suboxone tolerance is different then other opiates. He said if you stick at one 8mg pill , then that’s all your body/mind ever needs. While agree it’s not like other opiates where you have to keep raising your dose just to feel normal, I somehow feel like it’s not working as well as it did and I’ve been reading that the majority of people are on 16mgs, some all the way up to 32mgs a day! So I’m starting to feel like I need one dose in the morning and one at night not only because I think I’ve developed a tolerance psychologically but I work really long days and sometimes I get home really feeling like a second dose would be a good idea because I end up having cravings at night. (I take mine when I wake up). What’s worse iis ever since I startedttreatment, my doctor has been adamant about me quitting smoking and I did. It’s been over a month with no cigarettes but I’ve been chewing nicotine gum this whole time and I’m down to 2 a day and want to stop as soon as maybe in a few days. But now with out cigarettes and less nicotine in my system I’ve been having cravings. Do you think my doctor would put me on a second one at night? Next month is going to be one of the hoarders months of my life but I’m not quite sure if that’s something I should say to my doctor as a reason to be knownthat a second one. How should I put it to my doctor so my doctor understands why it’s important that I be on another without sounding like I’m using suboxone as a means of not dealing with life on life terms without nicotine and all the troubles in my life? I don’t want to sound manipulative. I think I’ve been doing really good.

Any advice would be appreciated.