Monthly Archives: January 2012

Skip a day b4 taper down??

Posted on by

Author: Adema

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:34 pm

Anyone tried to skip a day or two and than starting back up at a lower dose? I’m having a terrible time tapering down and Im gonna try to skip 2morow altogether and take 2-4 mg 4:30/ 5:00 fri evening, and continue at 2-4mg once a day from here on out! I know it’s gonna be a miserable day or so " maybe not??" but Im miserable if I take less than 6-8 mg anyway! I’m really nervous but I’ve been wanting to do this for far to long now and just keep making excuses and putting it off till 2morow and so on and so forth. Any advice or help would be appreciated. I’ll try to keep everyone posted on my progress the next few days but can’t promise anything if I turn into a trainwreck!!

Skip a day b4 taper down??

Posted on by

Author: Adema

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:34 pm

Anyone tried to skip a day or two and than starting back up at a lower dose? I’m having a terrible time tapering down and Im gonna try to skip 2morow altogether and take 2-4 mg 4:30/ 5:00 fri evening, and continue at 2-4mg once a day from here on out! I know it’s gonna be a miserable day or so " maybe not??" but Im miserable if I take less than 6-8 mg anyway! I’m really nervous but I’ve been wanting to do this for far to long now and just keep making excuses and putting it off till 2morow and so on and so forth. Any advice or help would be appreciated. I’ll try to keep everyone posted on my progress the next few days but can’t promise anything if I turn into a trainwreck!!

my daughter back on sub for try number 4

Posted on by

Author: stephent

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:29 pm

Mom – I can only imagine how tough this is for you. I cannot tell you that I know how you feel, because I do not. Please understand that I mean no offense at all when I say this, and remember these are my ideas only. I am not a doctor, nor am I professional. I have personal experience with chemical dependency and was a social worker so I have dealt with addicts and parents. Chemical Dependency often has some very common traits. I also had a somewhat co-dependent relationship, but yours seems very extreme. Again, no offense.

My counselor in rehab (a former addict and co-dependent herself) often said

"Those who love us are often as sicker than we are"

She did not mean this in a mean way or offensive way. But these issues effect everyone, furthermore, they bring out all sorts of stuff in people. I do not know your past history, but it seems like you have tried to "fix" people before (like your second husband). Sticking with an active addict for 12 years is not something most would do. Oftentimes, children of addicts/alcoholics often marry addicts, because it is the type of person they are familiar with. You cannot fix your daughter, you cannot get her clean. She has to do the work, you have to be supportive. My family were very helpful with me after they stopped enabling and let the professionals do the work.

First of all, you have to stop letting your daughter float in and out of your house. Basically, she is allowed to go out and use (you can get drugs with no money, in fact, people get addicted to "the hustle".) Not only does she have a place to crash, she also gets to come back and take Suboxone which removes her withdrawals.

Using/getting clean is all about consequences. Very often the addict has to feel them to want to stop. I am not a total believer in "rock bottom" but something inside of the addict has to change. ONLY THEY CAN GET CLEAN. I just got tired of using, began developing health problems and my mind was going to some dark places. Other people have to face different things. I have to say that I was never a needle nor herion user. That often complicates things.

I hate to say this, but enabling an addict is often THE WORST thing for them. I have a relative who was enabled for decades (a master of it, he still tries too) who cannot stay clean for any length of time, has brain damage and needs a liver transplant. This MIGHT (keyword MIGHT) not have happened had he not had a place to stay and money given to him. His use has went on for decades and I cannot imagine just how addicted he actually is. I mean this, I cannot comprehend just how far gone he is, and I myself used.

You very well may contribute to her getting arrested or worse.

What I would suggest is this:

1. Write up a contract for your daughter and you to sign. State that THIS IS HER LAST CHANCE. If she uses she is OUT. Think of what you are comfortable with, what about drug testing her? Sub will not show up, but dope and other opiates will. A refusal to take a test counts as a positive one. You must abide by this, no exceptions. Then both sign it. It would have been best to do this in treatment, but not time like the present. Require her to attend therapy, AA/NA, SMART RECOVERY, something. If she does use, she will try every trick in the book, but you must remain steadfast.

This does not mean that you will never let her back in, but require that she be sober and in therapy for a certain amount of time. Really, the best thing for her would be a half way house, however, he facility must not have felt she was really ready to get clean.

2. Suboxone isn’t going to make her want to get clean. Suboxone is a great tool for recovery, but many also use it as a "don’t get sick pill". Selling it shouldn’t be the biggest concern, the fact that she is using it as a fallback should be. Using Suboxone to keep yourself from withdrawals until you can use again will very often prolong the use.

If she is disappearing for days she is probably using. She needs to stop using everything for a good amount of time. No commitment to life long sobriety but she is going to have to stop disappearing, stop making dope runs, figure out which friends actually care for her etc. Addicts are often very sneaky. Just because you do not see fresh tracks does not mean she isn’t using. Plus, a persons mind can convince themselves of things when they really want to believe it. Also, where is she getting the Xanax from? Is she buying it on the street? This very well might be putting her into contact with people with other types of drugs. Xanax is kind of a one size fits all drug for addicts, wether you are coming down from a coke run or in withdrawal because you cannot cop dope.

Again, Sub is a great tool for recovery and is nothing to be ashamed about. Who cares if some idiots in 12 step meetings say she isn’t really clean. Screw them, they don’t know what they are talking about. But right now, it seems that she is just using it as another tool in her addictions quest to stay active.

Furthermore, does her doctor know she is using Xanax? The way she is playing with her tolerance this could be really dangerous. If her doctor does not know that she is using xanax then that doc should. No excuses. Combining depressants is extremely dangerous. But, It is extremely important that you let her take the medicine her doctor prescribes when she is not using (not using seriously). There is no shame in taking medication.

I disagree with the suggestion to let her continue to use pot. At least for a few months. Addicts need to learn how to deal with things without using. Plus, pot can cause anxiety which can lead people to use. I know at various times when I would smoke I would often then want to try to find an opiate or benzo.

3. This might be the most important, you must see a professional or attend something like Al-Anon. I know you have done tons of research, but that will not have the impact on your behavior that you and your daughter need. You need support and need people that have gone through this. Just today my current therapist said: It doesn’t matter if you have 10 degrees, you still feel.

You are not responsible for your older daughter. Plus CONSIDER YOUR YOUNGEST…. right now she is seeing her mother give her daughter lots of attention for doing some very negative things. Kids can do some crazy thing for attention, like pickup and use.

Please realize that I am not yelling at you with the capital letters, its just that I am trying very hard to make my point. My mother went to a few Al-Anon meetings but doesn’t go anymore. That is okay, it helped her figure out how to detach. Detaching is something that helped me big time.

I wish you the best, really I do. But please realize that enabling plays a major role. Your daughter very likely knows just which buttons to push. She has had lots of practice. I am sure you have heard every excuse in the book, I am sure she has said some incredibly mean things to you. A chemically dependent person is not who that person really is, but when they are using that is the situation you are dealing with. The fact that she used the day she got home suggest to me that she had no intentions of stopping. There are lots of people like this in rehab. Lots of people try to manipulate unintentionally. Crazy stuff, but your brain can go on autopilot. That relative I mentioned earlier is so used to lying that he does it all the time. He has supposedly been clean for six months but still lies and still is in denial.

I know its hard to hear, but she just might not be ready. She is still young. I know I wasn’t at 21. Oh, and I would not try to get her on intervention, but I think that show is totally unethical. If she needs treatment call up medicare, I am sure they can give her more options. However, if she is burning through rehabs then its less likely they will let her come back.

my daughter back on sub for try number 4

Posted on by

Author: stephent

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:29 pm

Mom – I can only imagine how tough this is for you. I cannot tell you that I know how you feel, because I do not. Please understand that I mean no offense at all when I say this, and remember these are my ideas only. I am not a doctor, nor am I professional. I have personal experience with chemical dependency and was a social worker so I have dealt with addicts and parents. Chemical Dependency often has some very common traits. I also had a somewhat co-dependent relationship, but yours seems very extreme. Again, no offense.

My counselor in rehab (a former addict and co-dependent herself) often said

"Those who love us are often as sicker than we are"

She did not mean this in a mean way or offensive way. But these issues effect everyone, furthermore, they bring out all sorts of stuff in people. I do not know your past history, but it seems like you have tried to "fix" people before (like your second husband). Sticking with an active addict for 12 years is not something most would do. Oftentimes, children of addicts/alcoholics often marry addicts, because it is the type of person they are familiar with. You cannot fix your daughter, you cannot get her clean. She has to do the work, you have to be supportive. My family were very helpful with me after they stopped enabling and let the professionals do the work.

First of all, you have to stop letting your daughter float in and out of your house. Basically, she is allowed to go out and use (you can get drugs with no money, in fact, people get addicted to "the hustle".) Not only does she have a place to crash, she also gets to come back and take Suboxone which removes her withdrawals.

Using/getting clean is all about consequences. Very often the addict has to feel them to want to stop. I am not a total believer in "rock bottom" but something inside of the addict has to change. ONLY THEY CAN GET CLEAN. I just got tired of using, began developing health problems and my mind was going to some dark places. Other people have to face different things. I have to say that I was never a needle nor herion user. That often complicates things.

I hate to say this, but enabling an addict is often THE WORST thing for them. I have a relative who was enabled for decades (a master of it, he still tries too) who cannot stay clean for any length of time, has brain damage and needs a liver transplant. This MIGHT (keyword MIGHT) not have happened had he not had a place to stay and money given to him. His use has went on for decades and I cannot imagine just how addicted he actually is. I mean this, I cannot comprehend just how far gone he is, and I myself used.

You very well may contribute to her getting arrested or worse.

What I would suggest is this:

1. Write up a contract for your daughter and you to sign. State that THIS IS HER LAST CHANCE. If she uses she is OUT. Think of what you are comfortable with, what about drug testing her? Sub will not show up, but dope and other opiates will. A refusal to take a test counts as a positive one. You must abide by this, no exceptions. Then both sign it. It would have been best to do this in treatment, but not time like the present. Require her to attend therapy, AA/NA, SMART RECOVERY, something. If she does use, she will try every trick in the book, but you must remain steadfast.

This does not mean that you will never let her back in, but require that she be sober and in therapy for a certain amount of time. Really, the best thing for her would be a half way house, however, he facility must not have felt she was really ready to get clean.

2. Suboxone isn’t going to make her want to get clean. Suboxone is a great tool for recovery, but many also use it as a "don’t get sick pill". Selling it shouldn’t be the biggest concern, the fact that she is using it as a fallback should be. Using Suboxone to keep yourself from withdrawals until you can use again will very often prolong the use.

If she is disappearing for days she is probably using. She needs to stop using everything for a good amount of time. No commitment to life long sobriety but she is going to have to stop disappearing, stop making dope runs, figure out which friends actually care for her etc. Addicts are often very sneaky. Just because you do not see fresh tracks does not mean she isn’t using. Plus, a persons mind can convince themselves of things when they really want to believe it. Also, where is she getting the Xanax from? Is she buying it on the street? This very well might be putting her into contact with people with other types of drugs. Xanax is kind of a one size fits all drug for addicts, wether you are coming down from a coke run or in withdrawal because you cannot cop dope.

Again, Sub is a great tool for recovery and is nothing to be ashamed about. Who cares if some idiots in 12 step meetings say she isn’t really clean. Screw them, they don’t know what they are talking about. But right now, it seems that she is just using it as another tool in her addictions quest to stay active.

Furthermore, does her doctor know she is using Xanax? The way she is playing with her tolerance this could be really dangerous. If her doctor does not know that she is using xanax then that doc should. No excuses. Combining depressants is extremely dangerous. But, It is extremely important that you let her take the medicine her doctor prescribes when she is not using (not using seriously). There is no shame in taking medication.

I disagree with the suggestion to let her continue to use pot. At least for a few months. Addicts need to learn how to deal with things without using. Plus, pot can cause anxiety which can lead people to use. I know at various times when I would smoke I would often then want to try to find an opiate or benzo.

3. This might be the most important, you must see a professional or attend something like Al-Anon. I know you have done tons of research, but that will not have the impact on your behavior that you and your daughter need. You need support and need people that have gone through this. Just today my current therapist said: It doesn’t matter if you have 10 degrees, you still feel.

You are not responsible for your older daughter. Plus CONSIDER YOUR YOUNGEST…. right now she is seeing her mother give her daughter lots of attention for doing some very negative things. Kids can do some crazy thing for attention, like pickup and use.

Please realize that I am not yelling at you with the capital letters, its just that I am trying very hard to make my point. My mother went to a few Al-Anon meetings but doesn’t go anymore. That is okay, it helped her figure out how to detach. Detaching is something that helped me big time.

I wish you the best, really I do. But please realize that enabling plays a major role. Your daughter very likely knows just which buttons to push. She has had lots of practice. I am sure you have heard every excuse in the book, I am sure she has said some incredibly mean things to you. A chemically dependent person is not who that person really is, but when they are using that is the situation you are dealing with. The fact that she used the day she got home suggest to me that she had no intentions of stopping. There are lots of people like this in rehab. Lots of people try to manipulate unintentionally. Crazy stuff, but your brain can go on autopilot. That relative I mentioned earlier is so used to lying that he does it all the time. He has supposedly been clean for six months but still lies and still is in denial.

I know its hard to hear, but she just might not be ready. She is still young. I know I wasn’t at 21. Oh, and I would not try to get her on intervention, but I think that show is totally unethical. If she needs treatment call up medicare, I am sure they can give her more options. However, if she is burning through rehabs then its less likely they will let her come back.