Author: slipper

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:56 am

INDIGO-My very best friend suffers from add/adhd and takes adderal 30mg. She is also on methadone, ativan, and several antidepressants(sp) She takes the methadone for pain and addiction. She was just laying in bed all day hurting and miserable….but since they have put her on the adderal she is able to get up and function. She looks and feels much better. She does not abuse the medications she is on…she told me with her pain stable and her energy level increased she doesn’t feel the need to abuse drugs.

Author: asm54

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:29 am

Good Morning

At about 11:00pm last night (80hr after induction) I finally felt OK and could eat something for the first time since I started induction
I know now that Travis was correct and some of the pain was w/d related
Then the strangest thing is that I woke at 3:00am in full w/d weird, because I had taken 16mg of Sub at 9:00 am or about 18hr before.
This time I did the correct thing and rather than taking my other opiates and took 8mg sub and that is where I am at now.
I can not say that I feel great but I am better than yesterday and that is good enough for me and as I have said pain will not kill you

I did a sub induction 2-1/2 years ago and that one went "normal" to 2-4mg doses and leveled out at 4mg x day but most of all I was fine and felt great the next day, so when I did the induction this time I had expectations from my passed experience. The difference was that I was on about 5x the dose than when I did my first induction.

So the Dr post (http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2008/12/precipitated-withdrawal-now-what/) has pretty much run true to form for me
If you transition from a high dose of opiates give it will take 3-4 days before you begin to feel OK

This my seem redundant but truly comes from my heart Thanks so VERY MUCH to Hat, Ann and Travis

Alan

Author: hatmaker510

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:46 am

Johnboy – here’s an older article by Dr. Junig about sleep apnea and suboxone. You might want to read it and perhaps share it with your doctor. http://blogs.psychcentral.com/epidemic-addiction/2010/12/suboxone-and-sleep-apnea/

You could also look through his blog as well for more on the subject.

I found this article during a Google search, but personally I don’t know much about sub and sleep apnea.

Be well, Johnboy.

Author: laddertipper

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:58 am

Oh man, I’m so sorry you suffered like that. It is such a tricky and tough and scary place to be. Did they give you Fentanyl to knock the Sub off? I think that makes a big difference. ((HUGS))

laddertipper

Author: laddertipper

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:10 am

I would so not recommend this method. I stopped Sub a full two months before having surgery and then went on painkillers for a little over a week following surgery. I didn’t take a high dose, other than the IV pain meds. However, it really set me back. My w/d symptoms, which had mostly disappeared, came back in decent swing after I stopped the painkillers. It was incredibly odd and fairly uncomfortable. Also, in between doses of painkillers, I started getting w/d symptoms. It was like my brain had been thrown a crumb and then threw a whole bunch of stuff at me to try to convince me to take more. I hated it. I don’t know how short-acting opiates can help anything at all. Suboxone is way, way easier to stop taking, so long as you have the key ingredient: patience. You can taper as low as you want and you are not up and down all the time. The whole experience freaked me out to the point that I canceled elective surgery I was supposed to have not long after this non-elective one. I don’t want anything to do with any painkiller/opiate whatsoever for a good while. Stay away!! That is my advice. Stick with the Sub and stick with it and you’ll be fine. There truly are no short-cuts and the long way is much more pleasant. We don’t need no stinkin’ painkillers.

laddertipper

Author: Breezy_Ann

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:22 am

I would like to throw another thought out there, we always here "not many people get off sub after long term sub use and make it". The same is true for an addict stopping any opiate. How many people do you know that made it off their doc long term? Since the percentages are single digits I gather not too many. If you could have stopped your doc and stayed sober, then why did you get on sub in the 1st place?

I think their are a lot of people that think sub is some magic cure that will allow you to get out of paws. It’s not, most likely you will suffer paws no matter which opiate you stop from, this can last anywhere from weeks to a couple of years. Depending on your drug abuse history, individual body chemistry, attitude, taper and so many other things. I have read post after post on other forums from people stopping their doc that complain about the exact same, long drawn out symptoms that most do here. I can say with full agonists they seem to get a week or 2 break after acute withdrawl (which is far worse) before they are slammed with paws. There is no easy way around it and time is the only way to heal no matter which opiate you stop.

Author: laddertipper

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:36 am

During my long taper, I looked into all these things thoroughly. Well, I looked into Ibogaine and the Waisman method. They put the implant in after you go through the Waisman thing. I called all around the country for Waisman places and they told me how impossible it was to get off Sub and how there was no other way to do it other than their way. The cost is pretty dang high. It depends where you go. I think the cheapest place was in Michigan or something, but it was still thousands and thousands of dollars. They rapidly detox you, they watch you for a few days, and they stick you back on a plane. My research revealed that most people still feel crappy after those few days and for many days afterward, but you have flown home and you have an implant in you. You are kinda stuck. Even if I did have 20K to spend on a great Waisman place, I didn’t want to go.

Ibogaine…..I considered this, and the cost is much lower. I called a number of Ibogaine places, and they told me that their way was the only way to get off Suboxone and how terrible the Waisman method is. However, it is illegal so you have to go underground or go to Mexico. Both these scenarios are scary. If something bad happens to you, you have rely on the goodness of people you don’t know, either people who are dispensing Ibogaine illegally in the US or someone treating you in a foreign country, to find medical attention for you. This scared me to death. I have a family and there was no way I wanted something to happen to me because I went to go have Ibogaine done in some secret or far away place. The doctors in Mexico seemed fairly knowledgeable. However, the doc I found to be the most knowledgeable explained that they really haven’t figured out how to make Ibogaine work well on Sub patients. So, you have to switch to something like Oxy for three weeks beforehand and they set you up with a doc to give you Oxy. So….go to Los Angeles, go get shady script from shady doctor, take that script for three weeks, fly to Mexico, people you don’t know pick you up, go to Ibogaine place, be administered something that can give you a nasty trip….after you are all done and back home, you need to get boosters of Ibogaine. This scenario was way too uncertain and scary to me. Oh, and you need to have your system checked out first to make sure you can handle the Ibogaine. Specifically, they need to make sure your heart can handle it. It’s no small potatoes.

MES999, I understand wanting to look into some way that will make it easier on you and I did the same thing, but I strongly advise you to stick to tapering and take your time with it. Tapering works and I know because I did it. I was on Sub almost 6 years and I tapered to such a small dose that I literally had next to no w/d when I jumped off. I went around and around with those possibly alternatives, but it all came back to just having patience. Sub’s long half life makes it a doable med to taper off of, aside from the pain of cutting small doses. I’m not saying that there are no shortcuts, but the shortcuts may be not worth it for many reasons. It can really stink to taper, especially if you try to go too fast. I still think it’s the best way, and there’s no absolute deadline, so it’s flexible and safer. Your body needs time to adjust as you drop down on your Sub. Not convinced there is any way around that.

laddertipper

Author: u2star

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:17 pm

Thank you so much. I needed this piece of hope badly.

Author: slipper

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:25 pm

Skyler wrote:

Hello Everyone. I have been on Suboxone for about 6 months. I think Suboxone is a lifesaver for addicts who are lost and desperately need help. I’m definitely Pro-Suboxone and think it’s a helpful tool in getting individuals off of opiates for good. I personally feel like it’s also an anti-depressant, it sure makes my mood better. I know that some may disagree, but I also feel like Subs work for pain management. I also really appreciate the fact that Subs block the effects of Hydrocodone, Oxycodone etc. etc. For me personally, Subs block those other guys for a whole 6 days since the last dose of Suboxone! That really helps with the issue of Relapse! Now, when it comes to side-effects that I’ve experienced…at first, I got extreme headaches, but that subsided after a week and I no longer suffer from them. I hate the excessive sweating I get from Subs. I am always hot and now that it’s summer (in Arizona I might add) it’s really difficult to deal with that side-effect. I also have some memory loss of things that should be super easy to recall! Still, I can deal with those side-effects. The one that I’m having most difficulty with is the weight gain. Now I know that Doctors will tell you that there is no sufficient evidence pointing towards weight gain on Suboxone, but I feel like the drug hasn’t been around long enough to determine that. Plus, we all have different body’s with different chemistry…the way one drug might affect one person doesn’t mean that it affects every other person the same way. My husband and I both started to gain weight when we got on opiates hard core. At first, it was just recreational and in moderation, but then we started doing drugs like Percocet and Oxycontin every single day. That’s when our weight steadily started going up. We both have always been into working out and I have followed Weight Watchers for 13 years. We went from having these perfect bodies to not being able to drop the extra weight no matter how hard we try. When I was engaged not too long ago, I was doing the bridal boot-camp and I was really watching my diet, but still, I couldn’t lose the fifteen lbs. I gained when I became an addict. The normal me would have been able to drop that weight and then some. I always believed that if I became a drug addict that I would become super skinny. I wasn’t on crack, cocaine, speed or ecstacy though, I was on painkillers. Look at Elvis and Anna Nicole, they were on painkillers and they got really fat. Still, I think it’s a blessing in disguise that I didn’t get all skinny from opiates, otherwise I would have NEVER got off of them! Anti-depressants make me lose weight. However, they made a friend of mine gain 60 lbs.! When she asked her Dr. for help, he told her it was in her head that the weight gain was attributed to the anti-depressant. She listened to herself and went off the anti-depressant cold turkey, went through long withdrawal, and recently lost 80 lbs. and looks amazing! She told me she knew it was the drug that was causing excess weight! But to my answer my question, has anyone else gained weight on opiates or Suboxone or both? I sure did. If so, please comment. It helps me to know that someone has gone through the same thing. I have gained a total of 35 lbs. through this whole process. I love Suboxone but I don’t think I can continue being on the drug when I am convinced it’s preventing me from losing weight. You know how you believe your body is trying to tell you something? I believe I won’t be able to lose this excess weight if I’m still on Suboxone. How do you make the choice between feeling better or going off the drug that makes you feel better in order to lose weight??? If you’ve gained weight and feel Suboxone has something to do with it, please respond. Thank-you! ~Skyler

TO SKYLER: I have always had a problem with my weight…being overweight…it makes me hate myself and not want to go anywhere with my husband because I am ashamed of the wayI look. Since I started sub over 6 mos.ago, I have gain a little weight and really crave sugar. …but , I have not tried to diet. When I seriously go on a diet I lose wt. I have lost over 100 lbs two times in my life. I look really good at about 135. I don’t blame sub. I blame me for not trying hard enough. I would never go off my sub because of my weight…then I would just have two problems instead of one. I have started on a really "i’m going to do it" diet and am losingwt. I need to lose about 40 lbs. I think everyone here has said a lot of good things….like drinking water..exercise (i joined a zumba class) and so on. …but I put my sobriety first above everything else..because if I am not SOBER I am LOST.

Author: tearj3rker

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:09 pm

I agree to exorphin. Buprenorphine certainly does have anti-depressant qualities about it, as do all opiates. I notice that I always get a mild mood-lift after I take my doses. But it also goes beyond that. Many of us first got addicted to opiates because they had some kind of "calmative" or positive anti-depressant effect on our mental health issues. However, being full agonists, things got out of control very quickly. Suboxone provides that effect, to a lesser degree, while being sustainable in the long term. It’s really quite a profound drug like that.

But we should also be wary of its dangers too. If someone who’s not previously been exposed to opioids gets put on Suboxone for depression, it could potentially be their introduction into the wider world of opioid addiction. And IMO, Suboxone is more difficult to taper off than the strongest of SNRI’s. Imagine RB’s hype-marketing department going nuts with a new indication like that? "Grey skies? Have a Suboxone!"

That being said, I still have hope/faith that I will be able to manage my mental health & addiction issues without Suboxone one day. My addiction came as a result of untreated mental illness as a teen, bipolar type 1. Only in the last two years have I accepted I will need mood stabilisers for life, and that the doctors were right. Given I’m now treating the cause of my addiction, I’m hoping that I will not need to always medicate it. Ever since I fully accepted & adhered to my psych treatment, without self-medication, things have been improving in my life.