Going back to opiates to get off Suboxone

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Author: Icaras

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:56 pm

OFT wrote:
True 717 I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. You said you wouldnt recommend it, but it worked for you.. and w/ds only lasted 14 days before you felt normal again.. This is fairly short term withdrawal compared to some of the other stories Ive read from people. Also how low of a dose of sub were you taking before you started the short acting opiates? Id assume part of the reason your withdrawal was more intense as you described it is because you were also experiencing withdrawl from the benzos. Perhaps after the 3 weeks you tapered your morphine/vicoden dose way down for a period of 1 week, your symptoms would have dissapated sooner??

Im really interested in hearing more experiences in long term bupe use, then going back to short acting opiates for a short period, before jumping off. Im curious how long the suboxone will actually stay within your system, and how it affects you after stopping bupe completely and using short acting opiates for a short period (3-4 weeks)..

Glenbee, yes thanks for clearing up PAWS, and precipitated whitdrawal for me. That is exactly what I was speaking of. My head was a bit clouded yesterday with so much stress going on, and I was having troubles explaining myself effectively.
I do recall now reading that taking opiates when you have suboxone in your system wont harm you, as the bupe or naloxone ?? wont allow the opiate onto the receptor. And if you take sub too soon after an opiate, as you explained it will be kicked off the receptor causing the precipitated withdrawals.. Thanks again for clearing that up. Its been such a long time since I read about how this medication actually works I seem to have forgotten many of the important points.
I appreciate the reply, and your advice seems pretty sound to me.. my problem is I dont think Im going to have much luck finding a sub doctor near me, as I have been hearing many people around me complaining for atleast a year now that they are unable to get into the sub program because doctors are full and not taking any patients. People in my age group and perhaps geographical location seem to have all fallen into opiate abuse very early on, and I would absolutely say its a pandemic in my area, and Im sure many other places are quite the same.. These drs are literally making millions at our expense.

You have been on sub for long as I have, in my experience the sub is NOT stripping any full agonists off but ironically it’s the other way around, this somewhat worries me, because, since I have been on bup for a long while I have built tolerance to it, even to the extent of full agonist makingt it through the bup, this should not happen right? well to me it is..Don’t get me wrong I have NO opiate problem at all, but whenever I have taken some opiates such as codeine, tramadol and others for pain issues I always felt the affects, even euphoric, why is this happening? if this is the case then in my opinion it will take a hell of a long time to be on a full agonist to heal from the sub… Sub has become my normality, I don’t get high off it as I use to, even on the same dose, again this scares me.. Hell I taken low dose naltrexone the last couple of days and even from that I am feeling endorphin boost, that should not happen right? you cant mix subutex and naltrexone right? I merely licked a 50mg naltrexone tab. and then next day felt as though am naturally high, is this a good or a bad thing? can LDN help you taper off the bup? why is the LDN breaking through the sub?

I am under the assumption that taking anything for long as we have you can built tolerance, when that happens it makes it even more hard to get off them and feel normal..I would rather much feel some effects from the subutex even if that means some withdrawals because it will tell me am withdrawing from the sub, it will tell me the sub is blocking opiates and tell me it won’t be very long to get off..

Does anybody think building tolerance to sub to the extent of opiates breaking through is a bad sign in regards to withdrawals and PAWS? does it mean I will have long wds and paws when I quit sub? I know from a short term perspective it seems if opiates are breaking through its a good sign but doesn’t that actually show a negative sign in the long run? that sub has been saturated n the receptors so much that anything else that goes still produces effects, such as opiates, so to undo this will take a long time for the brain to go back to its original state, which, is when your brain has been re-wired to the extent that if you took sub you will feel sick, and if you took opiates the sub will block it, for the brain to go back to that state one will have to go through long withdrawal and paws am assuming?

On the notion of taking full agonists to get off sub I know a couple who did that route and claimed it had no affect at all and made their withdrawals worse, more so when they stopped the full agonist after 2 months or so. I too was thinking of going this route but am hearing more horror stories then positive ones, now it’s different for someone whos taken bup for 5 months but taking it for long as we have I don’t think couple of months on a full agonists would be any beneficial at all. Even when I have just said opiates are breaking through the sub in my receptors, that just simply tells me in my opinion that I will have to take a opiate for 8 months and over for the brain to re-adjust, because I should not be feeling opiates while on sub should I? so the more I take opiates and not take sub I will have go through a period, if it took this long for me to build tolerance to the sub then dont you think it will take much longer then couple of months to undo all this? and that means going through the transitional period i.e inc withdrawals, paws, depression bla bla.