Author: tearj3rker

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:19 am

The reason I think (just a theory) some people are sensitive about Sub being criticised is the same reason people of all recovery methods can be sensitive to criticism of their choice of recovery. If I went to a 12-step meeting tonight and told everyone how shit my life was in NA, and pointing out all the flaws in the program, I wouldn’t make many friends. And not just because of the disrespect. The people in there made a decision at some point to base the whole foundation of their recovery and life on that program, so if I came along pointing out all the flaws and told them how much better I feel since I left, they’d no doubt wanna defend their own recovery as they would their own life.

Same goes for people on Sub, especially those who know they need it indefinitely. They don’t wanna be made to feel like they’ve chosen a B-grade life because they need to stay on buprenorphine. When people trying to stop Sub come on here and focus only on the negatives of their treatment, which they often do to keep them motivated, it can also leave those who need to stay on Sub feeling less-than. Or worse, leave them questioning their decision to stay on Suboxone when it may be the only thing keeping them alive.

Sometimes we get so lost focusing on our own recovery that we forget how what we’re posting can undermine the recovery of others. I’m guilty no doubt with all my 12-step rants. Personal recovery choice is a real sensitive subject, and the cause of 99% of the arguments here.

I’ve been on and off buprenorphine at various times, and this has been my experience with buprenorphine detox and the different feeling of both on and off Subutex. Both times I went off Suboxone, I jumped off quite high doses – 6+ mg. Because you’re doing a proper taper, my experiences might not be as relevant. But the acute withdrawal symptoms lasted around 2 weeks, peaking at days 7-10. By day 12-14 I felt like I was ‘in the clear’. And for me, jumping off that dose of buprenorphine was a more difficult detox than any straight heroin detox. However, a LONG time ago I also did a taper of Subutex down to 1mg, and that detox was relatively mild in comparison.

As for the feeling of being on buprenorphine compared to being abstinent. Yes, I did feel more present when I was abstinent. Music doesn’t stir up my emotions as much on sub, nor do movies. Kinda like being on anti-depressants / mood stabilisers, things can feel a bit blunted in comparison. But compared to my life in addiction where I was emaciated, mostly suicidal and in near constant-blackout, I’m miles ahead now on Sub. I’d rather feel like spectator in my life than have no life at all.

Out of all the opioid based pharmacotherapies, Sub for me is the closest feeling to being 100% abstinent.

I am more emotionally resilient while on bupe, probably because I am a bit more distant than I would be if I was off opioids completely. This is definitely a good thing. While I had some really great times in my clean stints, the ups and downs were overwhelming at times. The cravings to usewere a lot stronger. I’d often crave an ‘opioid holiday’ from it all. And when I did use, it was a LOT harder to stop than it has been when I’d use on buprenorphine. (But how much of that was because I believed I was "powerless" is hard to say). That is why I am back on buprenorphine today.

But you gotta understand Mark that most people here were in pretty bad shape when we were introduced to buprenorphine. Bupe, despite it not being perfect, despite all its side-effects, has had a HUGE positive effect on many of our lives. The transition from agonist addiction to Sub dependence for me, and many here, is like night and day. Even if sub made me impotent, grow man-boobs and lose a hand, I’d still be ahead compared to where I was.

If in your case, buprenorphine has had a negative effect on your life, that is not the fault of buprenorphine. If anything it’s the fault of your doctor for not truly informing you of what you were in for, and for putting you on a treatment that may have been overkill for what you required. I mean, you say you weren’t abusing your meds at all? You’ve had zero history of addiction!! Why would someone like that require long term replacement therapy? If I were you right now, I’d be asking your doctor some hard questions.

When someone makes a big call like that, IMO it’s fair to ask for the references to back it up. Esp given it could scare people off a treatment that could save their life. IMO it’s justified for people to ask for proof, because if all these kinda statements were left unchallenged, this place would be like a bad horror novel.

Author: tearj3rker

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:19 am

The reason I think (just a theory) some people are sensitive about Sub being criticised is the same reason people of all recovery methods can be sensitive to criticism of their choice of recovery. If I went to a 12-step meeting tonight and told everyone how shit my life was in NA, and pointing out all the flaws in the program, I wouldn’t make many friends. And not just because of the disrespect. The people in there made a decision at some point to base the whole foundation of their recovery and life on that program, so if I came along pointing out all the flaws and told them how much better I feel since I left, they’d no doubt wanna defend their own recovery as they would their own life.

Same goes for people on Sub, especially those who know they need it indefinitely. They don’t wanna be made to feel like they’ve chosen a B-grade life because they need to stay on buprenorphine. When people trying to stop Sub come on here and focus only on the negatives of their treatment, which they often do to keep them motivated, it can also leave those who need to stay on Sub feeling less-than. Or worse, leave them questioning their decision to stay on Suboxone when it may be the only thing keeping them alive.

Sometimes we get so lost focusing on our own recovery that we forget how what we’re posting can undermine the recovery of others. I’m guilty no doubt with all my 12-step rants. Personal recovery choice is a real sensitive subject, and the cause of 99% of the arguments here.

I’ve been on and off buprenorphine at various times, and this has been my experience with buprenorphine detox and the different feeling of both on and off Subutex. Both times I went off Suboxone, I jumped off quite high doses – 6+ mg. Because you’re doing a proper taper, my experiences might not be as relevant. But the acute withdrawal symptoms lasted around 2 weeks, peaking at days 7-10. By day 12-14 I felt like I was ‘in the clear’. And for me, jumping off that dose of buprenorphine was a more difficult detox than any straight heroin detox. However, a LONG time ago I also did a taper of Subutex down to 1mg, and that detox was relatively mild in comparison.

As for the feeling of being on buprenorphine compared to being abstinent. Yes, I did feel more present when I was abstinent. Music doesn’t stir up my emotions as much on sub, nor do movies. Kinda like being on anti-depressants / mood stabilisers, things can feel a bit blunted in comparison. But compared to my life in addiction where I was emaciated, mostly suicidal and in near constant-blackout, I’m miles ahead now on Sub. I’d rather feel like spectator in my life than have no life at all.

Out of all the opioid based pharmacotherapies, Sub for me is the closest feeling to being 100% abstinent.

I am more emotionally resilient while on bupe, probably because I am a bit more distant than I would be if I was off opioids completely. This is definitely a good thing. While I had some really great times in my clean stints, the ups and downs were overwhelming at times. The cravings to usewere a lot stronger. I’d often crave an ‘opioid holiday’ from it all. And when I did use, it was a LOT harder to stop than it has been when I’d use on buprenorphine. (But how much of that was because I believed I was "powerless" is hard to say). That is why I am back on buprenorphine today.

But you gotta understand Mark that most people here were in pretty bad shape when we were introduced to buprenorphine. Bupe, despite it not being perfect, despite all its side-effects, has had a HUGE positive effect on many of our lives. The transition from agonist addiction to Sub dependence for me, and many here, is like night and day. Even if sub made me impotent, grow man-boobs and lose a hand, I’d still be ahead compared to where I was.

If in your case, buprenorphine has had a negative effect on your life, that is not the fault of buprenorphine. If anything it’s the fault of your doctor for not truly informing you of what you were in for, and for putting you on a treatment that may have been overkill for what you required. I mean, you say you weren’t abusing your meds at all? You’ve had zero history of addiction!! Why would someone like that require long term replacement therapy? If I were you right now, I’d be asking your doctor some hard questions.

When someone makes a big call like that, IMO it’s fair to ask for the references to back it up. Esp given it could scare people off a treatment that could save their life. IMO it’s justified for people to ask for proof, because if all these kinda statements were left unchallenged, this place would be like a bad horror novel.