Author: laddertipper
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:55 pm
| Freedom12 wrote: |
| laddertipper wrote: |
| Freedom12 wrote: |
| Hellow everyone I just found this website yesterday.
I have read Laddertrippper’s thread and I must say am also very suprised. First of all let me introduce myself, am from England, UK and here we only have Subutex not Suboxone. We also have small doses like 0.4 and 0.2. I have been taking subutex for 5 1/2 years. I started on 8mg and raised the dose to 14mg which I stayed on for couple of months, then went back down to 8mg where I stayed for 1 1/2 year and the next 3 years I have been tapering and have been taking between 1.5mg and 1mg. Basically been on low dose for the past 3 1/2 years. I have now reached to 0.9mg.
Am also worried people getting PAWS even after a steady slow long taper. I don’t understand it? can I ask you Laddertipper if your lenght of taper minimized the acute withdrawals? surely the long slow taper had its benifits? surely if you had jumped from a higher dose you or did not taper you would be in withdrawals?
Did you at least get clear headed? Did you feel the sub fog lift? I read that you are not mentally depressed but the symptoms are pshycal correct? do you think this might because you tapered long and slow that you let your brain adapt to a decrease and with small amounts in your receptors that mentally you function alright but its the pshycal issue which gets to you? I think the depression people speak off after sub is because they do not give their receptors time to adjust to decreases long enough?
my theory on this PAWS is that the sub may do something to our receptors which contributes to PAWS, this I read from quite a few sources, its not so much the actual sub in your receptors but what it triggers to do, basically bup is the source but PAWS come from the damage the bup does to our minds, this is just my take on it.
I have read few people consider Ibogaine or Iboga whatever. From what I witnessed it does not really do anything for long acting opiate users ESPEACIALLY sub users, apparently you need to be far away from sub for several months for it to do anything. I have personally spoke and met sub users who said they still had withdrawals after Iboga and PAWS still were there, so that put me off big time. Think about it if people are having PAWS months after stopping sub then is Ibogaine really going to do anything about that? even a provider I spoke to said if bup is still in play you will fail.
I personally cannot stay on sub any longer, I honestly do not know how some people want to stay on it for life. I so agree that it turns on you. For the first year I thought it was holding me but after that it turned me into a zombie, I felt uninterested to do anything, I still have those feelings now, am sorry I cannot live a life like that and which s not my real myself…
Now I do not know whether to just jump off now or continue to taper, if people are going to get PAWS anyway then isn’t it wise we taper slowly to at least minimise the acute withdrawals? I dont know if jumping off a high dose or not tapering lessens PAWS, am confused..I genuinely thought with a steady long taper like Laddertripper did will not make her suffering as she is now. Surely there is some benifit of a long steady taper and finishing off from a low dose? |
I really hope I’m not scaring people. That scares me!
Freedom12, I can tell you with 100% certainty that (for me) my long slow taper made jumping virtually pain-free. And the placebo effects should have been against me, because I was expecting to have w/d no matter how far down I tapered. I literally stepped off while out of town with a frenemy who I would never, ever tell about Sub. I had no symptoms noticeable to anyone else. I actually slept each night, albeit not a ton of sleep, but tapering didn’t always involve lots of sleep either. The symptoms I have now are not at all severe and actually very much resemble the jumping symptoms, which were so mild.
The current symptoms are only annoying in their duration. My temperature thermostat is messed up. It sets in sometimes at night, especially if I’m out. Mostly, it’s in the morning, like right now. But I am not depressed. Sure, I’m kinda bummed at my inability to get going many mornings, but that’s not depression. In fact, I’m really ready to get going with life! I feel way different off Suboxone and that is why I’m hell bent on staying off it. Everything is different. I’ve been in a weird state for a long time, and now I’m back. (That is just me.) I’m really having fun again. So many new friends, new experiences, laughing, loving adrenaline, etc. Life it fun!!
One helpful thing is to stop eating a while before bed. This is finally sinking in. I always have morning GI issues, and those have been more of an issue since I jumped.
I still think tapering so long was a good idea, because I did not want to endure a high jump. I have days when I get frustrated with the whole deal and how it lingers, but I’m going to be okay, and I don’t want anyone else to be scared because of my experience. If you can stick with tapering all the way off Sub, you can stick with getting through PAWS. This is waaaayyy easier than tapering was.
I decided against Iboga too. The risks far outweighed the possible benefits, IMO.
laddertipper |
Aye I also decided against Iboga because of the conflicting horror stories not just about brain dead and seizures but people still having withdrawals and PAWS after Iboga treatment.
Laddatripper so you take anything or do anything which helps your PAWS such as excercise? I heard that is the best or nearest cure to making withdrawals and PAWS doable..
The fog lifted yeah? thats my primary concern right now, when did you notice the fog lifting? after stopping bup or at the lattar stages of the taper? I assumed you did not do the skip process? does that really make any difference? I mean if someone is going to get PAWS for 3-4 months then is skipping for a month really going to heap any benefits? or is it a case of when you do not take sub alot of it comes out then when you take it?
congratulations of getting off 6 year sub use.. I still believe your steady long taper kept depression to a minimume albeit if pshycal symptoms still stand. |
I am taking .5 mg Klonopin, but I’ve been on that for years and years, and I’m taking a ton of vitamins. Oh yeah, and melatonin at night. I know Immodium would probably help, but I don’t want to get dependent on even that. Yup, I’m exercising. The fog has absolutely lifted. I think it started lifting as I got really low on Sub.
To be honest, I have weird days, like today, where I feel like I’m getting some flu. My arms ache, like when you get shots, and my legs are aching and I just draaaagggg like nobody’s business. This started last night and I fell asleep super early. Thank goodness my trainer rescheduled for tomorrow, because I’m so exhausted. I think I slept longer than I have since I can remember, but I’m still so tired and doing pretty much nothing. I was driving today but felt like I really shouldn’t be, because my brain is so slow. I question whether the light is really green….does this make any sense?? From time to time in my taper, this crazy sleepwalking feeling happened and it still happens, thought not as bad. I don’t know if this is Sub or not. It’s an odd feeling!! Maybe it’s me fighting off a bug, but it seems like the bug never shows up.
I didn’t do the skipping thing. I was actually dosing three times a day and decreased slowly to only once, which was soooo rough for some reason. Once I did that, it got easier. Not sure why. Then, I just kept reducing.
I am very proud of being off Sub after 6 years on it!! It was a big challenge and I need to remember that I used to think I’d never be able to do it….
laddertipper